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Avoid Nightshade family? #179504
07/13/10 06:52 AM
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Naomi Offline OP
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The arthritis just moved to my fingers and I can barely type, so my brother suggested I stop all foods from the Nightshade family, including white potatoes, eggplant, tomatoes, peppers and a few other things. Apparently they contain something called salonine which some claim causes inflammation, but which is not backed by any research. I'm wondering if anyone has tried cutting these things out with any relief. One site suggested it would take 6-12 weeks for relief--a big commitment if it's baseless and also because I've have soooo many other diets recommended--no sugar, gluten, fats, etc.

Re: Avoid Nightshade family? [Re: Naomi] #179535
07/13/10 01:55 PM
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Naomi, please call your dr and get additional treatment. Do not wait 6-12 weeks. Please. Once your hands are damaged, you can become pretty useless quickly. I can barely hold a pencil and spill food on ALL my clothes.


This is a very very old diet and if there was any truth to it, believe me my dr would recommend it. "Friends" gave me three copies of the book by a dr written in the 40's or 50's. He doesn't even know there are over a 100 kinds of arthritis.

None of the diets have been proven, and there has been a lot of research. No reason not to try a healthy diet if you want BUT get treatment first,

Tried it and did not work for me

anna


Actema IV once a month (with pre loading for allergic reaction), Cymbalta x1 daily, Arava 20mg daily. Diagnosed with AS in 2004, suffered undiagnosed since 1982.
Re: Avoid Nightshade family? [Re: Banana] #179551
07/13/10 08:53 PM
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Naomi Offline OP
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Thank you, Anna, for your reply. I started Humira 2 weeks ago when the arthritis asc with colitis moved from my SI joints to my knees in April (took a long time to get the meds). My fingers are a new thing, but I know if I call my dr, he will tell me to wait and give the Humira a chance. I'm worried about waiting, but I don't know what else to do as I've only done the initial 4 shot dose of Humira and I've had no relief for the arthritis. Enbrel worked great for SI joints, but nothing else. I'm getting scared.

Re: Avoid Nightshade family? [Re: Naomi] #179565
07/13/10 10:32 PM
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I agree you should call your dr. Your hands are a pretty signifcant part of your body and you don't want to loose them. good luck.

I have a question for you what did you mean by "I've only done the initial 4 shot dose of Humira"? What does initial 4 shot dose mean? I am on Humira. I got the medicine and the dr told me to take it every other week. Just was curios. Thanks!


Mollie
Humira every other week, Morphine 1x3daily, Gabapentin 3x2 daily, Hydrocodone as needed, Cymbalta 1x2 daily, Trazodone 3 at bedtime, Fish Oil, Calcium. Diagnosed around 1985.
Re: Avoid Nightshade family? [Re: Naomi] #179724
07/15/10 06:14 PM
07/15/10 06:14 PM
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Hi, Naomi:

Although I do not believe that nightshades cause AS, there is some support for this diet and I have known people with this particular sensitivity--most did not have AS.

It is solanine and it is a volatile compound that might be cooked out but cooking is not that effective in removing all of this natural substance.

AS is a dietary issue and specific nightshades can certainly play a minor role.

Now I say AS is a dietary issue and I can prove this to myself by fasting, but I cannot fast for You--seven or eight days is required. The problem is that AS is a radical condition and it is sometimes serious enough to require a radical approach; mine was fasting. Now it is avoiding refined starches (flour products), soluble starches (like potatoes and corn), and all fried foods (of course anything breaded).

Peppers, a nightshade family group, do not seem to affect me but eggplant and potatoes of course are very bad. And certainly tobacco would be terrible for anyone with AS.

I know that You can find relief, and there are some things that I do recommend in addition to cutting out starches because AS is obfuscated by a condition of polyarthritis due to the root-cause of AS which is bowel lesions or "...Crohn's-like microlesions" that have been described and contribute to permeable gut. So hand involvement is not necessarily directly due to AS (and especially if this is symmetrical), for it is typically the wrong target tissue (in AS the targeted tissue is composed of types I, III, IV, and V collagens but the hyaline cartilage in the hands is type II--more a target for polyarthritis or RA).

1) Take borage seed oil at up to 2g effective GLA immediately before retiring.
2) Cold-pressed peanut oil (like Hain brand): Rub into hands very liberally.
3) Fresh wheatgrass juice at 4-6oz three days in a row on empty stomach.

These things have helped me very much and especially with that hand pain and inflammation at the base of the thumbs, but also AS pains in general--morning stiffness in particular during a flare.

Good Luck with whatever You decide,
John



Nota Bene: I am not a medical doctor, and my views do not represent the opinions of the SAA
AS Resources
My Long, Boring AS Story
Professor Alan Ebringer Diet and AS

Re: Avoid Nightshade family? [Re: Tacitus] #179792
07/16/10 07:39 AM
07/16/10 07:39 AM
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Naomi Offline OP
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Mollie, I am on the Crohn's starter pack for Humira. I have Ulcerative Colitis associated with a Sero-negative Spondyloarthropathy, so I'm negative for the HLA-B27 gene and RA factor--not sure I said it all correctly. My insurance would not cover the starter pack since it's considered experimental for Ulcerative Colitis, but the recommended treatment is 4 shots, then 2 weeks later you take 2 shots (which I did yesterday), then you go to the regular regimen for AS, 1 shot every other week. The theory is that while I've only experienced arthritis in my spine and SI joints previously, if my UC were controlled better the knee (and hand?) arthritis would be controlled. I am confused about whether or not my fingers would be permanently damaged from this or not as I've read so many different things. I've called both the GI doctor and the Rheumatologist and told them about my hands and neither one of them has seemed all that concerned.

Alan, thank you for your reply. I will look into what you suggest. I am highly allergic to peanuts, so will have to skip that part, but I really appreciate the other suggestions and will look into them.

~Naomi

Re: Avoid Nightshade family? [Re: Naomi] #180153
07/20/10 08:56 PM
07/20/10 08:56 PM
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You can ask for a script for hand physical therapy. They teach you how to prevent damage etc.

It takes a while for damage to happen, you might be ok.

Anna


Actema IV once a month (with pre loading for allergic reaction), Cymbalta x1 daily, Arava 20mg daily. Diagnosed with AS in 2004, suffered undiagnosed since 1982.
Re: Avoid Nightshade family? [Re: Banana] #180417
07/23/10 03:45 AM
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north Offline
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i have been reading here comments such as

""None of the diets have been proven, and there has been a lot of research. No reason not to try a healthy diet if you want BUT get treatment first,"

I think that the attitude should be TRY EVERYTHING THATS 'NATURAL' FIRST as medications smother and confuse the issue.

Since my Doctor says there is no cure [for my AS] and then did nothing, the diet was the onlyu thing available to me. I am so thankful that it worked and still does so well.

The low starch diet IS THE TREATMENT.

I found out about the potato connection through an experienced Dr who suggested maybe it might be an issue many years ago [a minor ache in the big thumb joint was the complaint] A little potato had caused big problems for me.
[HE who listens intelligently to all his patients is treasured!]

This may be one reason for fibromyalgia syndrome [symtoms]
Look at this website. It occurs to me that accumulation of poisons could be a feature too.
www.noarthritis.com/research.htm


North
PreAS = STARCHfree, yoghurt, ,, meat , vitE, niacinamide,B complex
CARNITINE, B6
Fibro = antiviral, MAGNESIUM /B6
Arthritis in fingers = no potato fam. plants
***********************************
Candour & laws differ from place to place
Re: Avoid Nightshade family? [Re: north] #180452
07/23/10 03:33 PM
07/23/10 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted By: north

The low starch diet IS THE TREATMENT.


How nice for you. But this is a statement of opinion, not fact. Your experience cannot be generalized to anyone else, let alone all others with AS. In fact, the diet DOES NOT work for everyone.


Jen, 42, happy partner of James and Moma to Evan, 14, & Lucy, 12.5 (Crohn's dx @ age 3; on Remicade since April 2010.) I take piroxicam, Flexeril, & Nucynta ER nightly. 3 anti-TNFs didn't pan out for me.

"Science is the father of knowledge, but opinion breeds ignorance." -- Hippocrates
Re: Avoid Nightshade family? [Re: JenInCincy] #180504
07/24/10 03:18 PM
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Tacitus Offline
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The diet does not work for everyone. True.

The diet does not work for 1) 1 person who consumed a potato every night during dinner, 2) 2 people who were not yet familiar enough with the diet (to be overly polite).

The diet DOES work for almost 92% of patients:


ESR tzero and after 9 months
London AS Diet (Low Starch)


33 out of 36 is not bad at all. Of course the same percentage of people will always pretend "diet did not work for me," because they are happy it did not "work"--after giving it a trial of exactly 3 hours 21 minutes and 4 and a half seconds. The Liberalization of the populace has destroyed their abilities to think for themselves.

Even after 9 months many people on this chart would not be convinced that their diets were working; it all depends upon where they started from.

Oh but although we are all 'different' (y=mx+b), most of us are not all that different.

Ignoring the facts about diet does not help anybody and only serves to mislead. FACTS are stubborn things and none of the doctors currently misleading our members will be even be there for the apologies, when their misdeeds are uncovered but by then it will be too late for many of the poor guys who will be crippled or blinded.

Pretending to be "scientific" by demanding double-blind, multi-center, randomized, control-group testing will only backfire.





Nota Bene: I am not a medical doctor, and my views do not represent the opinions of the SAA
AS Resources
My Long, Boring AS Story
Professor Alan Ebringer Diet and AS

Re: Avoid Nightshade family? [Re: Tacitus] #180526
07/24/10 08:46 PM
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I've definitely heard that avoiding nightshades helps a lot of people with RA, but not for AS. Conversely using the NSD or LSD has a good chance of being useful for AS, but not for RA.


Cauda equina type neurogenic bladder problems. Coeliac disease. Sicca syndrome. Ataxic gait and use crutches. Non-specific gut problems. Current treatment: Low dose naltrexone, low starch diet (Guts shredded by NSAIDs. Previously diclofenac worked well, not eligible for anti-tnfs, hypersensitivity to SSZ). Also short bursts of pred for bad flares
Re: Avoid Nightshade family? [Re: Tacitus] #181014
08/01/10 04:22 AM
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To bring a little clariy to this.

My own experience reflects what I have heard also elsewhere; that if you stop eating the Solanceae plant family foods, the arthritis [specifically in the fingers -Bouchards lumps? and the big thumb joint] the arthritis goes away.
It appears [to me] to be of bony changes and soft swelling. Someone I knew had joints as big as golf balls and amazingly it went after he stopped eating potatoes. It was short lived.
The most intense part of the swelling goes down in a couple of weeks and the rest in about 2-3 months.
Apart from a slight almost painless bump I have no more.

This shows up the mistake people often make with the starch free diet. They do it for a couple of weeks and pronounce it a flop, when in fact it takes more than three months [and a bad rebound reaction at that point]before the body gets rid of the poisonous 'residues'.
Except for when I make mistakes with the diet [and then suffer horribly!] I am pain free and supple.
I am inclined to think that a touch of Humira along with the diet to mop up those poisonous TNF excesses would be the best therapy for this type of AS.


North
PreAS = STARCHfree, yoghurt, ,, meat , vitE, niacinamide,B complex
CARNITINE, B6
Fibro = antiviral, MAGNESIUM /B6
Arthritis in fingers = no potato fam. plants
***********************************
Candour & laws differ from place to place
Re: Avoid Nightshade family? [Re: north] #181130
08/03/10 04:00 AM
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All the REAL research indicates early aggressive treatment prevents damage. So listen to your dr and try diet later. There is not a single diet that has been proven. The nightshade esp, is so old, the 1940's. You really think if it did help, that your dr would mention it? Same with the no starch.

there isn't a cure but there are some excellent treatment plans that slow and prevent damage.

Anna


Actema IV once a month (with pre loading for allergic reaction), Cymbalta x1 daily, Arava 20mg daily. Diagnosed with AS in 2004, suffered undiagnosed since 1982.
Re: Avoid Nightshade family? [Re: Banana] #182300
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Theres a whole world out there of quirky diseases and do not assume your doctor knows everyone of them. They will not talk of anything that has not been '''double blind tested''' or researched to the max. In USA especially they are excessively [litigation ]frightened.
The diet was a miracle treatment for me. However, I had fibromyalgia and too and theres everything to suggest that some of these cures [or even this type of AS itself might fall under a category of "metabolic diseases in the far future -------take a look..........http://www.mdausa.org/publications/Quest/q66metabolic2.html

http://www.mdausa.org/publications/Quest/q61coq10.html

Some of these genes have many variations and are known to accompany arthritic conditions.


North
PreAS = STARCHfree, yoghurt, ,, meat , vitE, niacinamide,B complex
CARNITINE, B6
Fibro = antiviral, MAGNESIUM /B6
Arthritis in fingers = no potato fam. plants
***********************************
Candour & laws differ from place to place
Re: Avoid Nightshade family? [Re: north] #183337
08/30/10 01:00 PM
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Oh yes, believe people on the internet before your doctor. Makes a lot of sense to me. NOT.

"Theres a whole world out there of quirky diseases and do not assume your doctor knows everyone of them."

Real research indicates early aggressive treatment prevents damage. Try diets that you admit don't work for everyone when you could be crippled? Please, if your hands/wrists become permanently damaged you will not be able to wipe your own behind. Think about that!!!!

Oh, I never heard of that loading dose, you do need to give it a month or two. When you said 4 doses I misread and thought you already took a months worth. So sorry, hope I didn't scare you.

Anna


Actema IV once a month (with pre loading for allergic reaction), Cymbalta x1 daily, Arava 20mg daily. Diagnosed with AS in 2004, suffered undiagnosed since 1982.
Re: Avoid Nightshade family? [Re: Banana] #183409
08/31/10 01:50 AM
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Naomi

While you listen to both sides basically argue with each other and try to counter each other I will try to address your original question. This is a forum on alternative methods and not one pushing traditional meds at everyone I believe. I assume you have some interest in exploring this area.

I have not read anything about night shades and AS. I don't think there is a connection there. There is some evidence that Diet may help some patients with AS but the research is incomplete. The SAA site says that if you find a diet that helps you feel better than by all means follow it. That seems like good advice to me.

I do believe that Diet, in particular the no starch diet may help a subset of AS patients. There is no way to tell if you are in that group so you have to decide if it is worth a try. It is not easy. Just because someone says it did not help them basically mean nothing as to whether it will help you. I also think the same is true when someone says it helped them.

Interestingly enough the main doctor that has researched the Low Starch Diet intended it as a compliment to traditional meds and not a replacement. If you want to try then ask questions about how it works and give it a shot. I do not think you should ignore what your doctor is saying or his/her advice. Try it out to compliment that treatment plan. That is how it was originally intended anyway.


I use diet along with my rheumys advice and have no problem with how the can work together. watch out for the extremes on either side is my advice smile

my two cents.

Last edited by drizzit; 08/31/10 01:54 AM.
Re: Avoid Nightshade family? [Re: drizzit] #183974
09/06/10 01:54 AM
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Very good post, drizzit. Advice worth considering.

As I've mentioned here previously, each of us needs to be our best advocate. What works for me may not work for you. Although many of the symptoms of AS, USpA, fibromayalgia, RA, etc. seem to be similar, they may all have a different genesis both collectively as well as in the individual.

Although Banana is right (to a degree) that you should place more credence in your Dr.'s opinion than in untested internet information, doctors are 1) only human, 2) deal largely in generalities based soley on large studies and 3) deal with you only for 10 or 15 minutes every 3 to 4 months. Take responsibility for yourself as best as you can to find the root cause of what ails you.

My rheumatologist had me on sulfasalizine for my USpA. I took it faithfully until I inadvertantly discovered that by not taking it, my pain subsided only to increase upon reintroducing the drug into my system. So I took myself off and the pain in my hands diminished with it. Haven't taken it since.

@ Banana. North's post upthread that stated the gradual elimination of "toxins" (or however it was stated) is not without merit. I've done exactly this over the past year and a half to two years and I've seen a tremendous amount of improvement. I started out by controlling my food intake to individual foods to watch for reaction. I then added individual food items one at a time. I kept those that posed no problems, eliminated those that hurt and eat those that cause minor problems sporadically. The process took a long time but, I can see drastic differences in how I perform now vs. two years ago. Two years ago I could barely tie my work boots on. Now I'm operating at about between 90-95% of my pre-flare self on most days.

As far as nightshades go (back on topic) by introducing foods gradually and testing, I've determined that, for me, I can eat an unlimited number of tomatoes, same w/ eggplant, peppers in moderation (red moreso than green) but, potatoes cause much pain.

Same goes for starches. I can eat an unlimited amount of white rice (long grain and jasmine) but, brown rice hurts. Similarly, I can eat small amounts of white flour products (e.g., bread/pizza) but, whole wheat hurts proportionately more. Whole grains, which I always ate before this all came about, are not part of my diet any longer.

The long and short of it is this, each of us is different. Use the different diet ideas as guidelines for experimentation and not as absolutes. Time and discipline may pay dividends. At worst, they will still put YOU in control of your future and your health.


"A knifeless man is a lifeless man." - Nordic proverb.
Re: Avoid Nightshade family? [Re: Naomi] #281516
09/27/18 09:36 AM
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PS, look at this peeps....a fairly recent article on nightshades and athritus. May not be news to most of you of course.

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/321745.php

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