Spondylitis Association of America Forums General Discussion Alternative Treatment / Diet Discussion Ketogenic diet

Hello,
Quick inquiry into ketogenic diet experience if anyone tried?
I increased the intake of fats from animals and coconut for the past couple of months in addition to my very low starch diet and very strict no diary policy (only ricotta cheese occasionally)and seems to be working for me.
However, it is increasingly hard to find safe to eat fish (only try to buy wild from my source), poultry (since parents in law will not cultivate as of this year anymore) , and non sprayed veggies.
It’s quite hard to maintain ketogenic, low starch, diary free diet in this case.
I wonder what others think of this..?

Ive been beef(grass-fed) salmon(wild), roe, heavy cream, beef fat, organs and water for many years keeping me away from biologics.

I can also drink Mead as I don't get any reaction from it.


I do supplement D3 as im in doors 22 hours of the day. i take k2 mk4 because im not fond of fermented foods to get vitamin K2 from. D3 and K2 go together to maximize absorption. I do leave some beef fat for longer periods of time in the fridge as it will ferment a bit. Sometimes it will have a sweet taste and sometimes it doesn't. You do develop a pallet day to day. the fact that is fermented would not taste good but I would force myself to eat it anyways and then the next day if its from the same batch i am literally craving for it as if its crack not that I know what crack is LOL

If you are doing keto I suggest staying away from pork as it's very high in omega-6. Or make sure you balance out the omega-3.

So it seems you have a high Intake of protein something I am trying to decrease at the moment for fiber and veggies. It’s so hard to get proper healthy food these days and the balancing between different dietary requirements is even harder. For example, Keto excludes ripe banana because of glucose and allows green one as it is still fiber, whereas NSD does the opposite due to starchy green ones. With 0 tolerance for diary and trying to lower protein intake I am quite limited in my options .

Hello, achala:

DIET is KEY in AS and the keto diets are great. Many people have had substantial results on such a regimen; best to stay as far away from starches as possible. Test with iodine, if necessary. There are many published lists of starch content of foods, but a few ideas: Tofu is not starchy and there are non-starchy food options like prepared mushroom noodles from Miracle Noodle, almond and coconut flour for baking, and eggs are important. Just like Imnotsure says, pork is not very good, but all of the other meats are very safe, broccoli, celery, cucumbers, and if You tolerate nightshades good to stay away from tobacco and potatoes--I can eat peppers and tomatoes without any problems. Tuna salads can be good, and some places prepare burgers wrapped in lettuce. Hope You can expand Your choices safely.


HEALTH,

John

Hey everybody,
Relatively recently diagnosed, finally had a flare that convinced me I had to try all the diet advice I found here. I now blame the flare on Quarantine, because we ended up drinking a few beers every night since we weren't driving anywhere. So it's been a couple weeks now that I've been trying this out and a have a super NOOB question: how long after you eat something do you learn you can't tolerate it, and how long will it affect you? Does that question even make sense? I know ideally you do an elimination diet and add like one food/week, but would you know if it affected you within an hour/24 hours/48 hours ...? Also, read somewhere that roasted broccoli becomes starchy? True?
Thanks

In my case casein kicks in within 24 hours and stiffens my neck every time. For the bowel definitely overeating itself creates a lot of undesirable sounds and movements. I am not sure I tolerate wine or wine vinegar itself. I am not sure klebsiella theory in my case fits the bill. I rather tend to think now I have issue with food allergens creating eosinophilic/histamine response, and Being hla b27 + coincidentally adds to the equation.

Thanks for the response achala,

I haven't been able to find enough food I can eat to be able to overeat yet. :-) Lost six pounds since I started cutting out starch a couple weeks ago.

I have reduced, but not eliminated dairy, and hopefully I don't have to. Somewhere on one of these forums, someone recommended cottage cheese (which I never really ate before) but a satisfying staple has been a big piece of green leaf lettuce topped with a couple slices of turkey, few spoonfuls of cottage cheese and 3-4 kalamata olives rolled up burrito-style. It is at least filling enough that I don't crave anything else.

Hello, ASin9pain:

Simple Answers: Normally, the longest we are at risk is 24 hours, however, this is a statistical thing and we will not flare every time we eat a provocative food. It takes four days for a flare to subside, under optimal conditions; consider a bell ringing only the audible vibrations will last four days, unless before the ringing dies out the bell is struck again and changes the dynamic. Broccoli never becomes starchy; it is cauliflower that, upon cooking the starch becomes more available, carrots also are better eaten raw and of course potatoes are right out!

The agent provocateur in AS is the immunoglobulin IgA-Kp (an immune component found typically in lymph and in this case targeting the common bowel germ Klebsiella pneumoniae) which has a half-life of about 100 hours.

Some of us react to certain foods within two or three hours; it is a very individualistic thing, but the most devastating foods I have encountered are usually deep-fried goodies like French fries, onion rings, and tempura, even fried rice made my life miserable for a week! From Carol Sinclair's book "The IBS Low-Starch Diet," it is relatively easy to anticipate whether a food will be safe by putting a little drop of iodine tincture on a sample; if it turns dark, it is too starchy to eat!

Anyone with AS can prove the food connection to this disease by fasting four or more days (water-only; my maximum was 20 after which I felt GREAT, btw). The foods are, regrettably, starches that cause our nemesis germ (K. pneumoniae) to multiply and trigger our immune system through the process of molecular mimicry, as per Professor (emeritus) Alan Ebringer.

The keto diet is inherently safe because it eliminates most sources of starch. Dairy, however, can be problematic; the more lactose the higher the bacteria count. I have found that a little probiotic yoghurt like Stonyfield Farms at 2oz/per day to start will help heal the gut and provide a better bowel flora to potentially displace our nemesis germ. Many people report good results from sauerkraut, kefir, and other fermented products.

It is important to supplement, but I have found that EVOliveOil throughout the day, by the teaspoonful, helps and in a flare a large amount of borage seed oil (5-8g) can ease morning stiffness if taken just before retiring and also reduce a flare.

HEALTH,
John

So much helpful information John!
I only wish I had found it sooner. I love the analogy of the bell ringing - that's why I didn't connect food with pain because I was constantly ringing the bell.Such reassurance to have found some guides along this crazy journey. Thanks a million.